告密者

Talking With Kathryn Bolkovac About Her Experience as The Whistleblower

Posted: 08/16/11 07:48 PM ET

 

After seeing (and reviewing) The Whistleblower, I contacted Kathryn Bolkovac, whose story is the basis of the movie, and interviewed her. Her answers speak for themselves, but also give such a sense of her persona, grit and determination.

FOSTER: You were faced with a situation where the people you worked with were engaged in something very shocking. Do you have any insight as to how or why they got involved with trafficking?

I really do not think there is clear cut answer for this. Everyone is an individual and is accountable to their individual behavior and potential illegal actions they committed and continue to commit in current missions. I think most people are truly just plain complicit in their thinking and tend to not get involved or look the other way to avoid any form of accountability, especially if they think that something does not directly affect them for their position. Then there is the group of people who can easily be swayed to join in on a pack mentality, who are morally and mentally weak or ignorant. When conditions are right as they have been and still are in many overseas missions around the world, or if they think they will not be caught or judged then it is easy for them to engage in illegal and corrupt behavior. They try to justify and minimize their actions. Finally, there are individuals who are just plain evil and corrupt, they see the money making potential of preying on the helpless and needy, and exploit every opportunity they can to make a buck, especially in an industry that involves sex. They are very good at dehumanizing, denial, and lying about what is going on.

FOSTER: What do you think needs to be done to address the trafficking issue? What can government do?

The trafficking issue at large is too complex to tackle with sweeping reform. There are so many different types of human trafficking each with different dynamics of funding the corruption. Obviously, many adults choose to be trafficked... or illegally transported across many borders to escape horrendous conditions in their own countries. These issues cannot be convoluted with organized criminal syndicates who are providing services to internationals all over the world, in the form of trafficking for forced prostitution. They are involved in the recruitment, abuse, desensitization, and sale of human flesh, into international missions as sex workers. This is what I want to discuss and what I think we can make a huge impact on based on my experiences as a former law enforcement officer, former UN employee, former representative of our U.S. government overseas, and as a former employee of one of the largest private government contractors in the world DynCorp.

FOSTER: What can our government do?

First, in the short term, the United States needs to take a serious look at why we are willing to allow private companies to engage in the profession of law enforcement. Government contractors are a needed and viable means to get many logistical and re-construction efforts accomplished. They are not a viable means for a protection force or as a mechanism for the use in training law enforcement officers in emerging democracies. Law enforcement is not a business. Policing is a calling. Does anyone really believe that private corporations are in this policing and operational mission business for anything but the money? We need to set an example with our own federal police selection units, perhaps via the Department of Justice as an example, why can we not recruit and most importantly train our own community police officers before we send them into these missions? My book accurately describes the pathetic training offered by the private company who sent me overseas, which I am sure was heavily subsidized with my tax dollars. It was a disgrace; none of us had even the minimum knowledge or idea of what we were supposed to be doing once we got into Bosnia.

If we are to continue to send "rent a cops " overseas with inadequate knowledge and inadequate protections from corrupt private companies, some of whom had serious questionable policing backgrounds we might want to stop and think about how this damages our reputation and our goals. The private company who fired me had free reign to treat me however they saw fit, no one was in authority to stop them. They were exempt from all U.S. government accountability and have never been held accountable for what they did to me to this day. How has this changed? It has not.

Second, get the Civilian Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (CEJA) out of committee and get it passed. It has been more than 12 years overdue. [NOTE: CEJA would allow the U.S. Justice Department to prosecute government contractors and employees for certain crimes committed overseas. It would complement the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act (MEJA), which provides similar criminal jurisdiction over Department of Defense employees and contractors but does not clearly apply to U.S. contractors working overseas for other federal agencies.]

Third, make government contractors accountable for their employee actions, by putting a clause in their contracts that require them to facilitate and allow oversight of both external and internal investigations by outside government agencies, when probable cause exists that employees are suspected, or implicated in criminal offenses. They must cooperate in the facilitation of prosecutions. They can no longer just fire people, and hope the problem goes away, which automatically curtails any further investigation.

Fourth, set examples by having the means available to prosecute and convict with meaningful sentences.

FOSTER: What can individuals do?

Learn, read, report, and stop burying your heads in the sand. Many of the people involved in these crimes could be your next door neighbor.

Get local law enforcement initiatives started, and ask your police chiefs this question. What kind of training is being offered to your new recruits and officers on the streets to recognize and investigate all forms of human trafficking?

Do you think a local police chief in the hills of Northern New Mexico, or in the farming community of southern Illinois, is even going to know what we are talking about? Does the local hotel have young female Hispanics working in the housekeeping department? They do not speak English, they have no documents, does he know what wage they are being paid and in what form? Think about it. I have been in these places have you?

 FOSTER: Many of the women and girls who are trafficked are promised jobs that don't materialize. What do you think would be effective to get the word out to them so that fewer of them fall prey to these types of promises?

The only effect we can have on this is to stop the demand.

FOSTER: How did you sustain yourself?

Continued faith in our justice system, lots of hard workouts and sweat, many tears and my husband would make me a strong gin tonic with lots of lemon and ice once in a while.
 



 

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我们的世界坏至如此，没有一个人是无辜的。力荐此片，真实改编而来。
人与制度的纠葛或许要贯穿整个人类文明的始终，没有绝对的公平，但必须有一个相互牵制的权利分配和制衡机制——即便它不完善。
有一颗还会流泪的心在，人性即不灭。
新闻是所有博弈的最后一条路，一个连新闻都没有的地方，所谓司法、正义、公平便是皇帝的新装。
那些为此新装沉默的人们，你怎么敢说自己是无辜的？
你怎么敢说你还有温暖的人性盛装在你灵魂深处？
你还以为在路边给乞丐抛几个零钱就能赎罪、丢叠钞票就代表的善良如初吗？
NO！或许你仅仅是需要借此行为装饰自己的优雅和高贵，而人性已然逃离于你言不由衷、裹得热乎发烫的躯壳之外，在瑟瑟寒风中濒临死亡。
而在中国这片神奇的土地上，它们作为一个复数已近濒临灭绝。
——《告密者》观后。

你认为世间存在正义，公正么？

人与人最大的共通之处是什么？empathy. 当一个人痛苦，难过，挣扎，崩溃，愤怒，快乐的时候，另一个人是不是可以身临其境的感受到他人的感觉．人与人之间最大的联系，在我看来，不是种族，国家，文化，和其他背景，而是这种empathized feeling. 如果没有这种感觉，难以想象人类的未来可以有任何希望．

看一下human trafficking的数据吧

An estimated 2.5 million people are in forced labour (including sexual exploitation) at any given time as a result of trafficking.　1.4 million – 56% - are in Asia and the Pacific.

The majority of trafficking victims are between 18 and 24 years of age

95% of victims experienced physical or sexual violence during trafficking (based on data from selected European countries)

43% of victims are used for forced commercial sexual exploitation, of whom 98 per cent are women and girls．32% of victims are used for forced economic exploitation, of whom 56 per cent are women and girls

In 2006 there were only 5,808 prosecutions and 3,160 convictions throughout the world
This means that for every 800 people trafficked, only one person was convicted in 2006.

大约2000年，一个美国的女警察被派往波斯尼亚执行联合国维和任务．期间他发现当地有各种色情场所里的年轻妓女都是从西欧各国贩卖来的，有的是拐卖，有的是哄骗，有的是无家可归者，有de 是因为战乱离家者．当地警察，政府，联合国维和组织，美国政府的contractor都参与到这个流水线式的犯罪行为中．就在她搜查证据的时候，他的调查被美国政府高层正式禁止了．原因就是U.S contractor以每年几十亿的合同为代价逼迫美国政府施压，干预调查．在乌克兰，罗马尼亚，捷克，白俄罗斯，波斯尼亚等等西欧国家中，这些年轻的女孩以各种手段被卖往欧洲美洲其他国家．贩卖者每年可以从中收取百分之2000的利润．一个美国pimp可以从一个年轻妓女身上获得＄250,000的利润．在这个事件中，集团公司，美国政府，联合国，当地警察政府，都成为了human trafficking的同谋者，他们当中很多人甚至参与到买卖妇女的交易当中．其中一个年轻女孩被人从乌克兰拐卖到波斯尼亚，因为答应为这个女警察出庭作证，被当场杀害．第二天，一群冷酷的波斯尼亚警察在荒郊野外围着这么一个被发现的年轻尸体，抽着香烟，若无其事的闲聊着，象看死老鼠一样，悠闲的看着眼前这个美丽生命的驱壳．很多的年轻女孩都是这样，先被侮辱，轮奸，性虐待，摧毁她们的精神意志，然后成为赚钱的性工具，最后被杀害或者被性虐待致死．

她把所有内幕在英国公布于众，没有一个当地警察和联合国官员受到应有的起诉和惩罚．所有人只是被遣散了．那些参与其中的U.S contractor依然在伊拉克和阿富汗享受巨额合同带来的利润．这个女警察现今依然没有工作．．．．．此事并没有引起媒体的轩然大波．．．

此时的我，愤怒．我喜欢这种感觉．

人与人之间如果没有empathy, 很难想象人类可以有任何希望继续下去．当看到这个女孩被一群男人侮辱，性侵扰，迫害，轮奸，杀害，你也许会感到有一些不安．当听到那些声嘶力竭的叫喊，我很难想象一个普通人竟然还可以神色安宁的喝茶吃饭！但之后呢，因为我们感到无助，没有能力做任何事情，所以我们便尽量的告诉自己，这是世界另一头的事情么？这与我们的生活不相干，于是我们只能叹气么？于是乎，世界的这一头，你在乏味平庸的生活着，另一边，千百万的年轻生命在你无法想象的环境中摧残着．每一个人和你一样有感情的人，每天在经历着地狱一样的生活，即使我们什么都不能做，也没有任何借口去无视．

集团公司和大学有一个课程或者名词，叫"business ethics". 你真的认为世间存在一种概念，叫business ethics么？business 真的有ethics么？business的目的只有一个，就是股东的利润．它所做的所有都是为了最大的增加股东的利润．ethics成为他们一个最道德化的理由，来让那些消费者觉得他们花的钱心安理得．

你觉得世间有公正和正义么？在哪里？（don't tell me its in the LAW)
这个问题很让人思考，但我不感兴趣．因为我不需要寻找公正和正义．
不管这世间有没有公正和正义，我们都不需要去寻找，因为寻找意味着我们倚靠他人和外界．这些价值需要自己去创造．这样创造出来的公正和正义是属于自己的．这样的道德律是凌驾与法律之上的．自己的道德律可以对抗全世界．

为什么human trafficking成为现今成长最快，利润最大的犯罪行为？

为什么越来越多的人成为所谓的＂现代奴隶主＂？特别是男人（在中国，平均四个男人中，就有一个参与性行为买卖）

为什么媒体对于这些真正涉及多放利益的问题，拷问伦理的重大问题置之枉然？

如果世间没有公正和正义，你会怎么办？

你走的越远，走的越久，就会发现这世间本没有价值，人也变得没有意义．而为什么人要存在？存在的理由之一就是为了创造原本没有，但之后属于自己的价值．让这些价值成为共通价值，才有希望．

去年加拿大和德国合拍了一部 The Whistleblower。讲波黑地区妇女被贩卖和遭受性暴力问题。实际上这些贩卖和暴力的活动却由美国官方以及与美政府合作的私人公司背后操作。

其实影片最后表达的还是这场抗争以失败告终，这个世界还是男权的社会。尽管有那么一些人被开除了，尽管katie最后把证据拿出来公布于众了，不要告诉我在波黑那些地方女孩们已经不再饱受欺凌。

有战争的地方就有军队，有军队的地方就需要军妓。可是，有哪一些人自愿来作军妓的，于是产生了贩卖和暴力。美国一向以维护世界和平为幌子践踏他国主权，把军队开到那里，产生直接的种族拼杀，衍生出各种复杂的社会问题。

由真实事件改编的好片子， 蕾切尔·薇兹 和 莫妮卡·贝鲁奇两大美女的演出，也透露了她们不只是利用身体来博得演出的机会，证明她们也在思考作为有影响力的女性应该传播的信息和价值应该是什么。

隐藏在世界某些角落的晦垢，只有用作为女性的眼能够看到。

整部影片几乎都处于黑暗背景下，即使在白天，也是出于幽暗闭塞的楼体，浓雾阴暗的天气乃至茂密的丛林中。贯穿着一股压抑，灰败的气氛。
承认是因为莫妮卡贝鲁奇才看的电影，但最终吸引我的不是性感女神，而单单是一个故事。
请原谅我的浅薄，我无法理解为什么有的人批判这部电影为题材陈旧。任何一个国家，在一部公映的影片中，刻画一桩政治丑闻，不得不说，这都是一种勇气。
影片确实处处透露美国的个人英雄主义，但与大多数商业片不同的是，我认为这不是一部单纯为了娱乐和票房诞生出的影片。现代社会原本人们引以为豪的艺术越发沦为牟利的工具，电影，书，音乐，越来越趋向同一化。变得越发没有内涵，我看到的是利益和浅薄。批量化生产的荧幕英雄带给我们的也无非是一笑置之而就此忘却。
而在这个人们无处释放压力的快节奏社会里，我们不能对生活和命运的压抑嘶吼，无力反抗，于是依靠电影来娱乐自己释放自己。其实很多时候我都在怀疑，是不是人们都在依靠这些虚拟的世界，依靠画面和数字，来寻找自己，找激情，找青春，找爱，甚至于，找良知。
苦难深埋在世界各个角落，我无法做到对于这样一桩真实发生的，且每天乃至每刻都在发生的悲剧，仅仅冠以一串数字的名头。我有个老师教过，看电影这种事情，外行看内容，内行看形式。但我无法做到。我始终认为，电影存在的意义没有拯救灵魂那么伟大，但至少能让我们看到世界不同的一面，让我们有感知，有感情，在痛苦的时候能因为感觉到自己仍是有血有肉的人，而得到一丝慰藉。
如果电影的存在仅仅只是用来表达或纪念某些形式或拍摄手法，那么我只会觉得那是一种枯燥而毫无意义的传承。最终会被抛弃。
是因为社会颠覆了善有善报的传统，于是人们变得越发麻木，我相信并非人本性冷酷，而是世界教会我们，我们牺牲了自己，却未必能保得他人。惩恶扬善。于是才有了明哲保身，远离是非。
在一些人冰冷的评价着每年250万人口被贩卖时，我只能觉得是一种良知的丧失。也许我们都不是英雄，我们看到卑鄙，却无法对抗，我们做不了女主那样牺牲自我而护卫良知的抉择。从而选择逃避，但是，仍希望在我们可以做的时候，别只觉得处在灾难中的人民，只是一串数字，就像一部电影，只是几个演员，几台机器。
任何一具身体，都透露着生命的气息，在那些女孩惊慌大叫的时候，我亦感到恐惧。作为一个导演，将情感传达出来，就足够让我满意。镜头打在 人性 这个词上的那一刻，我忽然因为自己的善良仅仅只是给没有饭吃的人们几个硬币，而自惭形秽。
英雄是存在的，但当人们麻木时，英雄将被淹没。
不谈道德，仅仅是为了维护生而为人的良知与人性，我们需要面临的都太多。需要付出的也太多。
作为最普通的社会一份子，我们大概时时处在一种被操控中。但仍愿相信希望，并保有对生活最基本的希望与热忱。坚定的走下去。

这片子是今年第一次看片后有去查资料去翻历史的冲动的片子，根据真实故事改编往往都是些有着撼动能力的片子。今天一直在找有没有类似的片子，没有，真没有，后来想想这也是应该的，一，历史是不容复制的；二，政治丑闻不是那么随随便便可以浮出于众。更可见它的难得。
为何会这样？
打着人道主义的口号，做着人性泯灭的事；作为维持秩序正义的人，做着游走于法律之下的事情。一直认为任何一件事的发生归根究底都会有一个根本原因的诱使，同样像他们也一样，原因就是这些人都有一个保护伞------外交豁免权。没有法律的制裁以及监督，残暴一览无遗，当同伙壮大，这种现象根本是无法想象的。就像战后的波黑。
或许会觉得前半段有些冗长，但是看后回想起来，几乎每一句台词，在片后的对比都是一只强力拳，足以打碎那些虚伪的正义。
关于制度
波黑是一个多名族国家，存在强烈的宗教间矛盾，92年三个民族围绕波黑前途和领土划分等问题开战。战后联合国派遣维和部队来重建，但是这却为他们带来了新一轮的灾难。看电影里为了可以保护那两个女孩凯瑟琳算是恳求那个部门的女同事，但是她只会冰冷地重复制度、规矩。可是他们呢？凌驾于制度之上，游走于法律之下，还不如强盗。
关于人口贩卖
07年李扬拍《盲山》，在国际上大受欢迎，可在Z国却被打入禁片的冷宫，一不露肉，二不暴力，但却被禁，因为揭露了一个残酷的现状----人口贩卖。看片时我也在假想如果我也是个被贩卖去的人怎么办？看不到明天，活着和死了差不多，估计八成选择咬舌自尽，赶紧投胎。“每一天都会有女孩被贩卖”，
关于媒体
媒体的本质，永远是一个向霸权献媚、为强盗歌颂、毫无道德可言毫无廉耻之心的妓女本质。 这是大众的普遍认知。不过片中的这个真相有幸可以公之于众，很庆幸它越过了美国，是靠BBC以另一种方式报道了出来，BBC和此事没有直接的利益冲突。作为媒体的良知从始至终都是个模棱两可的问题，如果太敢说真话，最终嘴是会被封住的。即使看过这部片，这个看法我还是不会改变。
关于最后
最后想说，Z国永远不会拍这种片子，甚至播出