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O Ornitólogo – An Interview with João Pedro Rodrigues – August 11, 2016byJeremy Elphick|Locarno Film Festival

Q: There was clearly a lot of sexual undertones and overtones throughout the film, but I felt like there were a lot of allusions to a more politicalpart of that sexuality identity. I’m not sure if I read too much into the part of the story where he has to take these pills to stay well, but yeah, I felt it was referencing AIDS treatments, and with the song at the end, I wasn’t too clear on it but the closing song is a piece that emerged from a certain context.

A: Not really the song, but what it has … The guy who made that song was a pop singer from the 80s in Portugal, and he was also a hairdresser. He was a very flamboyant guy, very weird guy but really great. He was one of the first, I don’t know, cases in Portugal that you knew that he died with AIDS. The song talks about loneliness, basically. It’s called … what is it called in English? Something like the cruising song? It’s about people meeting and not knowing each other being alone and not wanting to be alone.

Q: Did thesemore like political kind of histories fed into how you wrote any part of the work at all or if that was just a coincidence thing that—

A: No, it wasn’t a coincidence because for me, it was … it was also connected with my personal life because he was an important singer for me and when I was growing up. I think these things, they keep up coming and when I thought about the scene and when I shot it, I really felt that song was the ideal song for … in the film, in the end, there’s this happy ending but it’s like an afterlife happy ending, because they die and resurrect several times throughout the film. You don’t really know if it’s real life or not but the song, at the same time, is about being together but being together but being, at the same time, alone. I think in relationships, there’s always that contradiction of … I don’t know. Perhaps I feel it like that, like in homosexual relationships, there’s the fact that you’re with a man and it’s like same gender. We’re looking for something that is the same but at the same time, it’s like you’re looking for an image of your own self. I don’t know. Perhaps it’s also me and perhaps it’s also my age, and so that I … how can I put this? There’s a tone that the song gives that, for me, it’s very truthful to being together and wanting, at the same time, to be alone. I don’t know. I think there’s always this contradiction when you’re together. I thought that it was a really perfect and beautiful way to end the film. I think I gathered everything I’d seen in the competition so far. It was the ending that I was watching and I just like, “This makes complete sense. It’s the way the finish this film,” and it was just such a interesting mixture of feelings to watch it. Because the end went very fast.

类似于这类电影，说真的，我不特别能懂，它是宗教、文化、导演意识世界的产物交杂，但是作为一门开放性的电影艺术而言，它其实有多重解读空间！不过我倾向于两个方向:究竟是一场求道转化、信仰归属之旅，还是失去主我人格，鸠占鹊巢的邪教同化之旅？

我们通常说到宗教仪式，不仅在正统宗教里有某些在一种科学式眼光看来匪夷所思的思想(教义)和仪式，在邪教的宗教狂热中会衍生更极端的教义和宗教仪式，这种仪式通常成为一种信仰的桥梁，他们认为通过仪式的转化能够更接近他们的信仰。

相比于正统神学思想，这一部在我看来应该是神学本土化的一种产物，有很强的地域文化色彩，也就是所谓的迷信或者说仪式在里头，我不好去断定这种仪式属于一种正常范畴的仪式，或者是脱离正常的邪异信仰仪式？如果属于前者，显然它是一场正常的求道之路，如果归属后者，显然它是异化的！ 因为我不熟悉电影背后信仰文化背景和导演的思想世界，我只能从一个相对客观的角度去假设，一是，电影的男主角是否承担导演思想意志的某种替代？他从观察鸟类(实际上寓意一种科学性行为，也即背离电影所处自然丛林内主流信仰)，到遭遇所谓的正统信仰(两个中国女孩)对他的审判，并诡异的令他陷入这样一个仪式的进程中，并最终完成这场仪式转化，获得所谓的自由(似乎是以失去主我人格为代价的自由)...二是，导演是不是在完成一种开放性的讨论，这种陷入宗教形式的自由是否可取？(插一句题外话，我身边世界所见，其实挺多宗教人士，它们更多的实现信仰对自我的替代，而不是一种自我意志的建全和补充。但是人类内心痛苦的源头成为一种不可解的矛盾时，越来越多的人选择用信仰来替换这种根植于内心的痛苦。)电影实际上也可以理解为这样一种论证，即是以自我换取痛苦解脱，从而自由的一场求道，这个过程是中性的，无所谓好坏对错，但它极端的衍化，必然是邪性的。 电影细节层面充满隐喻，这些隐喻层面更多是充满正统神话色彩，也勾连了整部作品复杂的转化进程和主题升华。我不具体去聊，但从仪式的完成，忏悔，与转化，到重生，我还是看到了导演以此来代指一种无神论者向信神者转化的一个过程(指代他自己，或者只是作为一种思想创作)，也有类似于阿彼察邦带有某种传统信仰色彩的神秘性创作。 如果要深入去解读这部作品还是需要回归导演文化和信仰逻辑的土壤，寻找他创作的初衷，目的。总而言之，一部挺有特色的高水准佳作，这部作品会挤下李沧东的燃烧进入我这个十年十佳之一！

无神论者的丛林探秘，在鸟鸣、流水、动物、鸽子、神秘人、凶杀之间，渐渐寻找到了自己的道路，皈依信仰。缺少故事主线的叙事犹如呓语，不知所云；不可思议的幻想代表着暗喻，却着实太过明显，过犹不及；猎奇的影响片段充满了自言自语；配乐太抢戏；形而上学的自我陶醉，说实话，我没看懂。无神论者的丛林探秘，在鸟鸣、流水、动物、鸽子、神秘人、凶杀之间，渐渐寻找到了自己的道路，皈依信仰。缺少故事主线的叙事犹如呓语，不知所云；不可思议的幻想代表着暗喻，却着实太过明显，过犹不及；猎奇的影响片段充满了自言自语；配乐太抢戏；形而上学的自我陶醉，说实话，我没看懂。